Let's speak to the conservatives now.
I'm joined by the shadow cabinet office
minister, Alex Burkhard. Morning.
>> Morning, Trevor.
>> Um, do you agree with the Archbishop
that those who are making the case for
immediate detention and deportation are
isolationist, short-term, and knee-jerk?
Um, and are you, the Conservative Party,
guilty as charged?
>> Look, I think it's very clear to
everyone watching at home on Yeah.
watching your show Trevor that far too
many people are coming to this country
illegally that there needs to be full
adequate deterrence to prevent that from
happening and that we under this
government we don't have that and that's
why the conservatives be very clear
under Kem that uh yeah if we get back
into power we will make sure that uh
anyone who crosses the channel illegally
tries to get into our country illegally
is deported.
>> You didn't do that before did you? No.
>> Why why should anybody believe you can
do it now? No, we we didn't uh we didn't
succeed in that. Uh but if you look at
the work that Chris Phil and Kemmy have
done uh since Chem took over, you'll see
that they've now put together a very um
comprehensive uh legal answer to how we
solve these problems. And that goes much
further than the last how come she and
Chris Phelp who was also in government
at the time um didn't get rid of the
asylum hotels when they were were in
power.
>> So what were you as you know Trevor
because you follow these things very
closely. what was happening under us
that was that we were trying to find uh
a very firm deterrent which was offshore
processing in Rwanda. Uh by the time at
the end of our term in office we had
gotten to that point but Labour coming
in immediately scrapped it and now and
now they're seeing the consequence.
>> You're doing same thing that they do.
you've le to blaming them for something
that you could have done when you were
in the reason I'm blaming them Trevor is
because we now have much higher
crossings than we have ever had before
and that is because the people who are
running the smuggling gangs have seen
that this government is a soft touch uh
and consequently things are only going
to get worse under this administration.
We have put forward very firm legal
proposals that would solve this problem
and the government needs to take account
of them. Yeah, Joe Tanner on the panel
was saying earlier on that one of the
problems that the Conservative Party has
right now is that you still haven't
truly acknowledged the mistakes that you
made. Why can't you just say on this
question asylum hotels on the asylum
hotels? Why can't you just say we blew
it?
>> I think it's entirely wrong to say that
we haven't acknowledged mistakes and uh
it's very
>> I'm asking you to acknowledge a specific
one and which you've now decided was
wrong. Why can't you just say that? So
the mistake that we made, I think, was
that we did not go far enough on uh
overruling human rights legislation that
was binding the hands of the last
government and preventing them from
taking the tough action that was
absolutely necessary. I think by the end
we'd actually gotten to that point, but
then the general election prevented that
legislation from being implemented. The
Labour Party came in, they scrapped it.
We have now put forward very clear
legislation that would solve this
problem. Uh and it's clear that this
government isn't going to do it. This
problem is going to get worse. they are
going to need more hotel spaces, not
fewer. Uh, and we're going to see um,
you know, uh, this this problem across
the country uh, get much worse.
>> Have you decided that you're going to
get that you want to get us out of the
European Convention on Human Rights?
>> As you know very uh, very well, Trevor,
because we've spoken about it before.
Uh, we have a very senior Casey um, Lord
Wilson looking at all of the legal
intricacies of this problem at the
moment because it is not simple. It is
not straightforward and anyone who
pretends it is hasn't looked into it.
And when we get that when we get that
report, you will be one of the first
people to hear exactly uh what our uh
what our proposals are. But to be clear,
the purpose of this exercise is to make
sure that there will be no legal
obstacle to us solving the problem of
illegal migration in the channel. There
will be no legal obstacle.
>> So I'm by the way, it's a privilege to
to be first to get this information, but
Oh, one of the first. Okay. Um, you say
that to all the girls. But look, the the
point I really want to ask is as a
matter of principle, if it is possible
for you to withdraw the UK for the from
the ECHR,
is it your view that we should do that
>> if that's what's necessary, we will do
it.
>> Your leaders written to councils uh Tory
le councils to keep going to oppose the
presence of asylum hotels in the court.
Um, I want to give you the chance just
to be clear that there's no
encouragement from your party to from
the sort of person who wants to break
into asylum hotels and
>> No, no, no. Of course, of course not.
And people have an absolute right to
peaceful protest. Um, yeah. And
certainly on this issue, Eping's very
very close to my constituency. I
completely understand uh why people are
angry about what's happened there. I'm
angry about what's happened there. Uh,
but you there is a line. you know, we
don't resort to violence in um uh in our
protest.
>> Well, one of the reasons I'm asking you
that is Eping Forest District Council's
complaint is that is in theory about a
planning violation.
>> Yeah.
>> But in practice, are you sure it isn't
because they and you just don't want
people in the Bell Hotel walking their
streets? The leader of the Brooks
Council and another one of yours told my
colleague Jonathan Samuels yesterday
that, and I'm quoting him here, we don't
want these people walking around the
area. So, as you know, Trevor, there's a
very serious allegation made against one
of the people who was uh in the Bell
Hotel. Following that, the council wrote
to the home secretary and said, "Please,
will you shut this down?" Uh,
>> there are allegations against three.
Does that justify smearing the other 13?
>> The Bell Hotel is on the high street in
Eping. Uh, it is right in the center of
the community. There are um people under
in the area feel worried and unsafe and
the council asked the home secretary to
close it down. she declined and they
therefore look for legal routes in order
to be able to uh close the close that
hotel and they will continue I hope they
will continue that legal battle because
I believe very strongly that Iette
Cooper and the Labour government is
putting their uh obligations to uh
asylum seekers above their obligations
to local people and I don't think that
that is accepted. So, so your problem is
not really about planning. Your problem
is these men you think are dangerous.
>> The the problem is that there are people
in Eping who don't feel safe and should
be able to feel safe in their own
community and uh there a legal window
has opened up for the council to be able
to uh force the home secretary's hand.
Uh she has chosen to side uh with the
asylum process and not with the people
of
>> All right, just very briefly last last
point. Church of England used to be
known as a Tory party at prayer. The
Archbishop of York says that it's
shaming to keep the two child uh cap on
benefit and your policy is to keep it.
Do you feel ashamed?
>> No, absolutely not. I think that people
who are on benefits should have to face
the same choices as people who are in
work. Uh I don't think that an
incredibly expensive extension uh to the
welfare system is what uh the British
people want or can afford at this moment
in time. But even even outside of that,
I think in principle, we shouldn't just
be endlessly extending welfare. Alex
Burkart, thank you for your time this
morning. Cheers.